RPGs Should Ditch the Stats

[GOATOFRAGE]

without stats how would you mark progress

 

[TikiShades]

Without stats how would characters grow and develop? If you take away stats than every single person would clamor for the only thing to make them any stronger: Armor, all the characers would try to get the best armor they possibly can, thus creating an army of unindividual and boring characters. (Oblivions main flaw, no matter who you are, you always went for deadric)

If you use light armor, daedric doesn't do much. :/ And the Knights of the Nine armor is better, if I'm not mistaken. It also weighs much less.

 

[typhoon17]

As with everything, stats keep it interesting and make you think and strive for things.

 

[Shady Dealer]

stats are really what maks an RPG an RPG you determine how your character is played and waht thier strenghts and weaknesess are ifthey chop those out but leave the level system then the game is no better than the military rank system in halo

 

[Et3rnalLegend64]

well, you COULD have stat-based rpgs, and non-stat-based rpgs (though i don't know how that would varry from an action game). it could be done, and everyone would be able to get what they want.

Definitely about the not being much different from an action game. There is no possible way this could work. What does he suggest we replace statistics with? It's like it's not even an RPG anymore, really. More like Zelda, really. (and people go pride themselves on doing low level runs or plays with clipped characters are screwed)

 

[DarkRyter]

How will we differentiate between characters? How will we keep playing without any kind of buildup?

Statistics define RPG's. They give a sense that the player can work towards something in order to better their character(s).

 

[The Austin]

Without stats how would characters grow and develop? If you take away stats than every single person would clamor for the only thing to make them any stronger: Armor, all the characers would try to get the best armor they possibly can, thus creating an army of unindividual and boring characters. (Oblivions main flaw, no matter who you are, you always went for deadric)

If you use light armor, daedric doesn't do much. :/ And the Knights of the Nine armor is better, if I'm not mistaken. It also weighs much less.

Errr.....that isnt the point...
If you did light armor you would go glass and the nights of the nine armor is for good guys only........

Im just saying stats are good.

 

[lacktheknack]

But improving stats is what keeps me going in an RPG!

Obviously we should keep them, it's not an RPG without the little numbers.

EDIT: Although, in Titan Quest, the numbers aren't near as important as your new abilities are, but they're still there.

 

[Zefar]

Stats are things that you can drastically change your character depending on what type of game it is and how the stats are handled.

Lets say you want to be a tank, so you max your VIT or Defense stats to the max and take a lot of beating. Or if you want to dodge pretty much everything you go for AGI.

This is thou not how most games works which is a pity and Sacred 2 is a prime example. I get one point per level to put in a stat and it doesn't make a difference what I noticed.

If you want simple games, stick to FPS but RPGs shouldn't really be nerfed THIS much.

 

[AboveUp]

I think fable 2 had a good idea with the whole appearance based on how you play. I would think that people could expand that to the entire characters stats.

Actually Fable missed the mark completely. You could raise your magic stats with the green orb without ever using any magic in the game. Morrowind and Oblivion got the idea of raising your stats depending on how you play better: the more you use a skill, the higher you skill level becomes. Fable 2 simplified it to a point it became a laughable extra.

I'm not against the idea of having RPGs without stats. I sounds interesting, if done right. The problem is that most ways for a game to have it work correctly would make it too linear or too easy to break. Again, Fable being a good example for both. It's the closest to an RPG without stats, and has thus been labeled the perfect RPG for people who don't like playing RPG.

The problem is that without stats, it becomes hard to make clear what your character's limitations are. Stats note how experienced and adept your character is in things.
Think of it like playing a guitar: you don't expect to just start playing Van Halen's Eruption the second you pick a guitar up. It takes time and effort to become skillful enough to play even the most simple things.
That's what stats are for, to gradually have your characters become better.
If it was all about the player's skill, we'd all do 10 minute speedruns of Oblivion by now. It would ruin the whole feeling of progression.

Having characters improve by finding items would lead to it becoming more of an adventure game rather than an RPG. The main difference being that you'll have no influence over the progression of your character, and you're not playing a role.
I know that by that logic most JRPGs are more graphical adventures, and when you think about it, they are.

 

[Gxas]

I don't see exactly how else they would do this. It works doesn't it? Why change something that has worked for so long?

to improve it.

Yes, to improve it. But why? It works perfectly fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it at all. Let me rephrase: Why improve something that works perfectly?

 

[gim73]

Okay, lets strip it down a bit. Do you consider HP and MP to be a stat? Sure looks like a stat to me. An rpg without hp/mp can't really exist. So let's just have hp/mp and no other stat. So your character levels up, he gets some more hp and mp, things are good. Say he is a magic user and learns a spell called fire 1. By your logic, that fire spell will do the same range of damage at lvl 1 that it will do at lvl 68. The only possible way to do more damage with fire is to learn fire 2, 3, etc...

Now let's look at a melee weapon. Let's start you out with a dagger that does 12 points of damage to an enemy. You open a chest and find a broadsword that does 45 points of damage. So we now have a game that is gear dependent. But gear dependent games are pretty hard. Look at FF tactics, that game was a *****. You are seriously pushing a fine line between your character level and what gear you can afford.

Video game rpg's are about progression. You gain levels and your stats progress higher. But that is not always true. There was a FF game where, when you got to high levels, your non primary stats would decrease. Seems kinda silly, but you are concentrating on certain areas, and you are gonna neglect everything else. You only really see it in how much damage you take by certain attacks that stat is responsible for defending against. Nobody likes a 1 in willpower. Makes you seem like a weak minded fool.

No, RPG's should not ditch stats.

 

[kantalupa]

Tidball's an idiot. If you don't like stats, go play a different game. Don't expect everything to change for you when there're other options that fit your criteria. Think Fallout 3 has too many stats? Then go play Generic Shooter #3734.
Actually, even FPS' have stats. Your movement speed and jump-height are Agility. The amount of damage you can take is Endurance. So if you don't like stats, your only choices are Pong and Tetris.

I can think of 3 shooter games that had stats. They are considered RPG shooters. So what are you talking about?

On topic: You CAN have an RPG without stats. Stats don't define the RPG genre. I define it as the ability to become progressively better/stronger at a fixed or exponential rate. Take away stats, and leave it to something along the lines of feats.

I've played an RP that had no stats at all, using only your wits and clever. While this would be hell of a hard concept for game designing, it performs miraculously.

Hell, Fire Emblem didn't have stats, did it? While it doesn't do much to prove itself as an RPG, I still see it as one, if only slightly. It felt too small to be called RTS.

fire emblem did have stats though. it had hp, strength, speed, etc. and stats make RPGs more fun in my opinion. it lets me make my character stronger in the areas i want it to be strong. i dont want an all around awesome character, or all around normal character. it makes the game boring.

 

[not a zaar]

An RPG without stats would just be an action adventure game. We already have lots of those.

 

[mikecoulter]

To say RPG's should not use stats, is like saying FPS's should not use guns.

What a great idea! I'm going to get working on that.

Everyone lookout for the next best seller ;D

 

[Adam]

Taking the stats out of rpg's is like taking grind out of MMO's or bullets out of a FPS or scary things out of a horror game. It's what makes the genre. It's all very well and good talking about innovating and improving genres, but not when you take out what makes that genre great.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I really don't know how to start this.

Let's start with No.

Given that even the most basic of RPG's rely on statistics since their conception, (Even Amber, the diceless system was more reliant on statistics than a lot of other games) there needs to be a dictate of what things can and cannot be achieved at anyone time. This requires statistics to show what level someone is at and unless you start wanting to use words, cards or colours; numbers are the way to go.

Even the most number-illiterate of us can tell that a two digit number is higher than a one digit number and can react accordingly, and even the colour based "Consider" system in MMO's is simply a visual representation of +1, -1.

You want a RPG without statistics? Hello, Portal or Mirror's Edge, minus traps.

For n levels.

Simply, Statistics ARE RPGs. Remove them and what you've got left is a maze game.