I'm not sure it's shallow. Comfort and safety are pretty big deals to humanity.BiscuitTrouser said:
On Gaymers and Cons
- Thread starter The Wooster
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True. If we keep this up, homosexuals might feel unwelcome and unwanted. Good thing that doesn't happen when gays try to fit in with the majority.Peithelo said:
To be honest im not sure either. It feels like a bit of a shallow thing since being Gay isnt a character defining quality, nor for that matter is being male or most other things. But that doesnt label it as bad. Or something no one should do. Its just something some people want/need from time to time and thats perfectly ok. In a perfect society we would feel comfortable just sharing humanity with eachother but lets admit it, we are less than perfect and desire a little same time. Thats perfectly alright. We should accept people are less than perfect Utopian totally accepting loving individuals and be ok with that. Sure we can try and we should try to make society nice and welcoming. But going aside once in a while aint a bad thing to enjoy a little bit of arbitrary sameness. The act itself is shallow perhaps, but the effect like you described is real and important which is why it cant hurt to let people have that even if they way they do it might not be the most rational thing in the entire world. It doesnt hurt anyone at least. Is anyone REALLY hurt by not feeling welcome at Gaymer con? We are allowed to go. Does a single living soul feel real pain by not having Gaymer con geared to them? Gaymer con helps people feel happy in themselves. And until someone shows me it REALLY REALLY hurts people by excluding them im not going to assign it any harm.Zachary Amaranth said:
Nathan Drake can get it, he IS a stud.rhizhim said:
I think that not allowing these people to have their own Con reeks of more apartheid than the Con itself would. It's probably not even about being able to hook up, just about playing by their rules for a change. Like, we might not see some of the (hopefully unconsious)discrimination that happens on a regular con, but they do and by setting up their own convention they can prevent that from happening. I guess?
Basically, I don't see what all the fuss is about, it's not like they'll check your sexual orientation at the door. Everyone is free to organise their own party, if some gay people feel the need to do this, let them.
They wouldn't need a doorman turning people away. The name says it all. Only this type of person is welcome here. The rest aren't! Maybe I am naive but to me gaming is for everyone regardless of sex, race or sexual orientation because of none of that matters. And to me making a con for a single sex or sexual orientation instead of being all inclusive is the opposite of the spirit of gaming.Zachary Amaranth said:
But hey I also don't think "fake gamer girls" or "casual" gamers are the work of the devil so what do I know?
You might also want to re-read.wintercoat said:
The post was (clearly) aimed at a small, but annoying, group of people who hide behind feigned ignorance rather than state their opinions outright. You just claimed you don't belong to that group. Thus, I didn't call you a dick.
As for your first question. The comic and the accompanying blurb are not part of the forums and are not subject to the same rules. How does that feel? Fucking great.
My take on the matter, as an LGBT person, is this:
"You don't see the need for something like this? Well, I don't see the need for you to open your mouth and spew whatever crosses your brain on a subject that is absolutely irrelevant to you. But you did, so them's the breaks."
Let me put it like this: being part of the LGBT minority is no pleasure cruise. You experience everything from actual violence to verbal violence to workplace discrimination to unfair laws to casual homophobia/biphobia/transphobia to snide remarks to ignorant bullshit to really subtle things that dishearten you and kill a little of your spirit every day. And not because life is hard, no, all this is extra because we're LGBT. We get the exact same crap everyone else gets from life, and then an extra sidedish of more crap because we're just that special.
So we want to set up a whatever (doesn't matter what it is) and the general response is "Why are you doing this? I don't understand and frankly, I don't want to understand. I just want you to go back to being invisible."
If you're genuinely curious about what LBGT people have to face every day, educate yourself, ask away, whatever. But don't try to play the victim with your 'genuine curiosity' when the implicit message is "I don't like what I'm seeing". Because we can tell. We can always tell.
"You don't see the need for something like this? Well, I don't see the need for you to open your mouth and spew whatever crosses your brain on a subject that is absolutely irrelevant to you. But you did, so them's the breaks."
Let me put it like this: being part of the LGBT minority is no pleasure cruise. You experience everything from actual violence to verbal violence to workplace discrimination to unfair laws to casual homophobia/biphobia/transphobia to snide remarks to ignorant bullshit to really subtle things that dishearten you and kill a little of your spirit every day. And not because life is hard, no, all this is extra because we're LGBT. We get the exact same crap everyone else gets from life, and then an extra sidedish of more crap because we're just that special.
So we want to set up a whatever (doesn't matter what it is) and the general response is "Why are you doing this? I don't understand and frankly, I don't want to understand. I just want you to go back to being invisible."
If you're genuinely curious about what LBGT people have to face every day, educate yourself, ask away, whatever. But don't try to play the victim with your 'genuine curiosity' when the implicit message is "I don't like what I'm seeing". Because we can tell. We can always tell.
Actually. I'd like to put paid to the whole "sexuality has nothing to do with games!" line right now. Want to know why that's bullshit and why homosexuals might not be comfortable at regular cons? Do a google search for "booth babes."
In practice, all that really bothers me about gay events like these are the feeling that they're probably cooler than the not-specifically-gay events and that I don't feel ambiguously sexual enough to try to join the festivities.
I'm still not sure which bathroom we're supposed to be in in the last panel (with regard to the lady with the 'pipe' between her legs). Transsexuals only? That does seem to be getting a bit rarefied.
I'm still not sure which bathroom we're supposed to be in in the last panel (with regard to the lady with the 'pipe' between her legs). Transsexuals only? That does seem to be getting a bit rarefied.
I dont really know why the point even matters. I dont feel disenfranchised or uncomfortable in society. Nor do my female friends. And yet we still have the very occasional "Guys/Girls night out/in" because feeling like youre among people who are the same is a small but enjoyable comfort we indulge every so often that makes us feel secure in a small way. It doesnt exclude anyone on purpose. We dont "Forbid" female friends from attending the same location or event. Its just a night about doing the things we want to do in a group of people like ourselves, and the next day we spend time with everyone again like we do everyday and accept everyone like we always do. If you have EVER invited all your male friends over for an all nighter playing games you know this feeling and you honestly cant complain. Im a straight white teenager and i have this indulgence, why the fuck can i deny it to a group that probably has this craving so much worse than i do?Grey Carter said:
And lets be fucking honest its VERY dishonest to claim this is any type of "Segregation" because no one is forming a gay only hermit community that NEVER interacts with regular society. This is, at WORST, a load of people saying "I spend 99% of my time in a mixed society where i dont always get to behave the way i want to, where i dont always feel like those around me allow to me to really be me, i wanna have that for a single event so yeah Gaymer con. After wards i might go to Game con". I dont believe these things, like all male/female sleep overs, drive a stake through the compatibility of the sexes or the sexualities. Its a one time vent. Not a "GAYS ONLY SOCIETY!".
Just because someone wants to feel safe and secure about something, especially about being gay which they might feel uncomfortable and alone about, that doesnt mean regular conventions have failed anymore than people enjoying a Stag Night means regular parties have failed. It just seeks to make them feel happy. And i cant deny a person that. I struggle to think of someone REALLY REALLY, like to the depths of their heart HURT and WOUNDED that they, although perfectly able and welcome to attend Gaymer Con, have to live in the same world as an event designed to make a group they are not part of feel welcome. I mean fucking wow does anyone REALLY feel like this?
Eh it bothers me in the sense that I feel like such a thing shouldn't be that big of a deal cause it really isn't. People fuck whatever, and gender is a state of mind and all that.
I will call bullshit on it's a place for people to "Network and talk about Gay-issues" no. Bullcrap. It's a place to play video games, and hook up for sex later. Same thing as a normal con.
How does one "Network" anyway? I should try that some time. "Hey sexy lady, what we push our facebook accounts together and network honey. Awww yeahhhh"
...Or are you implying is the booth babes that are threatening to drag those of the Rainbow Armada out into the street and yelling at them to bite the curb?
OR OR OR, are Booth Babes like the dogs in Terminator movies, they can sniff the gays out?!?!
Nah that argument is bullshit grey. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable around a guy in a speedo thats advertising a game. Only a person uncomfortable with their own sexuality would.
And while I'm at it, are we ever going back to the narrative?
I will call bullshit on it's a place for people to "Network and talk about Gay-issues" no. Bullcrap. It's a place to play video games, and hook up for sex later. Same thing as a normal con.
How does one "Network" anyway? I should try that some time. "Hey sexy lady, what we push our facebook accounts together and network honey. Awww yeahhhh"
What if they're gay women?Grey Carter said:
...Or are you implying is the booth babes that are threatening to drag those of the Rainbow Armada out into the street and yelling at them to bite the curb?
OR OR OR, are Booth Babes like the dogs in Terminator movies, they can sniff the gays out?!?!
Nah that argument is bullshit grey. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable around a guy in a speedo thats advertising a game. Only a person uncomfortable with their own sexuality would.
And while I'm at it, are we ever going back to the narrative?
I'm with you on this one. Maybe it's just hard for me to understand how other people feel, though.SaneAmongInsane said:
If I was at a con and there was a bunch of sexy guys in thongs trying to sell stuff I wouldn't care in the least.
Again, maybe it's my personal familiarity with transvestites, gays, bisexuals, etc; and I'm just projecting my experience onto others. They're just people.
Why hello, I am Black and here is where i don't follow your logic: How does creating a space where you, for once in your life, are the norm and suddenly are being catered to make people more segregated?rhodo said:
whats wrong with creating a place where you can trade tips with other ladies or how to handle menstral issues and picking out bras? whats wrong with making a place where i can go and purchase an awesome ninja star Afro pick?
these sorts of events promote a sense of togetherness among those there, while doing absolutely nothing to you and yours. also, these cons don't have a Gays Only sign out front and armed thugs to enforce it. Straight people can go to Gaymer Con if they so wish, they simply won't be the norm. Just as there are certain topics you, as a woman wouldn't bring up if i, a man, where around, there are some things gay people just want to discuss among themselves and doing so makes them feel comfortable.
please tell me, what is so wrong with that?
I think a lot of the baffled/hostile response to this kind of thing comes from the fact that young straight suburban-y adult males are the default marketing demographic. So when something is very distinctively marketed to someone other than them, it comes as a bit of a shock. And that produces a tendency to interpret it as "this product is designed to exclude me!" rather than "this product is aimed at an audience other than me."